IT AIN'T OVER TIL IT'S OVER: HILLARY CLINTON SEEKS DNC CONVENTION VOTE!


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Random rakings

All the news unfit to print for Wednesday, January 30, 2008

Edwards out....


All the news unfit to print for Tuesday, January 29, 2008

Beyond the primary

A road sign points the way to nearby towns Clinton and Prosperity in Newberry, South Carolina, January 25, 2008. US Democratic presidential candidates Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY), former Senator John Edwards (D-NC) and Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) have been criss-crossing South Carolina ahead of the state's Democratic primary election. REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst (UNITED STATES) US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN 2008 <br />(USA) ...Some other random rakings of the evening besides the primary news from Florida.

India on 'war footing' over bird flu..

Intrigue over mid-February weather models..

Show me the money: The House voted Tuesday to rush rebates of $600-$1,200 to most taxpayers.. The Senate is next, but it may get delayed further despite public requests for their money back!

Attorney General Michael Mukasey said Tuesday he will refuse to publicly say whether the interrogation tactic known as waterboarding is illegal.. The good thing about a McCain victory: The age of torture would be over..

Nightmare on my street: FREDDY KRUEGER set to rip again.. Theory behind new NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET movie would be Freddy's back story..

A new burst of killings in Kenya..

Pope wades back into science debate..

The case of the missing iPhones..

ABC defends its show against outcry by pediatricians ..

ELI STONE probes autism link to vaccines..

NETSCAPE problems? Call by Friday..

Another new argument in Iraq about another new flag..

Drunk man drives lawn mower into liquor store..

Surprise ice storm causes problems in Pennsylvania..

Winter storm chaos in China..

Late-week storm threat for Northeast..

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EVEN WITH ALL THE EXCITEMENT..

..it's still keeps seeming like it will be John McCain vs Hillary Clinton in November...



REUTERS PHOTO
THE 20TH CENTURY BOY...

..ROMNEY LOSES, GIULIANI DROPS, AND MCCAIN GETS ANOTHER ENDORSEMENT..

..

But will conservatives be happy?

Will America be happy with 'more wars'?

TIME MAG blog reporting tonight that Giuliani endorses McCain tomorrow..


THE CLINTON PEOPLE: PURE EVIL GENIUS..

They're giving a victory celebration speech in Florida even with votes not counting..

Amazing.

I guess they're happy it's not South Carolina.

And she's lucky a lot of Democrats voted early..

Supporters of Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., wait for her arrival in Davie, Fla., Tuesday, Jan. 29, 2008.<br />(AP Photo/Lynne Sladky)


BEWARE THE EXIT POLLS..



We have seen them crash before in Florida.. Exit polls, as they stand, seem to suggest a McCain 34 Romney 31 race..

Votes being counted.. Real numbers coming in..


WOW...

There are a few exit polls that suggest that Democrats who voted early went for Hillary.. People who voted today seemed to go for Obama.

Mrs. Clinton better watch how hard she brags about this victory..


NOT THAT IT MATTERS...But..

Hillary Clinton just won Florida.. It will be interesting if there is a disputed convention as to what exactly will happen with the Florida delegates..


AP Photo/Gerald Herbert
END OF THE ROAD...


A WHOLE LOT OF NOTHIN'..

Years and years of Giuliani the hero on TV for us all to see..

His slippery and slurring words .. spit all over microphones..

And it's all over tonight.

He put high hopes in Florida.. Dashed when voters went to the polling places.

The hero of 9/11 (not according to many firefighters) loses big. Even a lot of votes don't matter tonight.. He was beaten by Ron Paul in several states.. He put his money in the Sunshine state. And it's cloudy over Giuliani headquarters tonight..


EARLY NUMBERS

...VERY EARLY NUMBERS IN FLORIDA SHOW ONLY A FEW HUNDRED VOTES SEPARATING ROMNEY AND MCCAIN -- WITH ONLY 1% OF THE VOTE BEING REPORTED...


FLORIDA EXIT POLLS

  • ECONOMY LEADS IRAQ AS MAJOR ISSUE..
  • MANY REPUBLICAN VOTERS ARE STILL SATISFIED WITH BUSH

    Mixed messages.. Economy result would help Romney. Bush assessment from voters would seem to help McCain.. Some polls in Florida closed.. still others in the Central Time Zone open..





  • YOUR TURN FLORIDA
    * * *
    WHO WILL IT BE?


    Republican race is winner take all.. Decmorats (for now) don't matter since the state was stripped of delegates. Those delegates may matter at a disputed Democratic Convention..

    Voting problems being reported in Florida..

    Romney, McCain close. .Giuliani may have to soon decide whether he will quit..

    According to exit polls: Those voting today are older than primary voters in any other state ..

    Some exit polling showing McCain with slightest of leads..

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    All the news unfit to print for Monday, January 28, 2008

    President Bush delivers the final State of the Union address of his presidency to a joint session of Congress in front of Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Vice President Dick Cheney (L) at the U.S. Capitol building in Washington January 28, 2008<br />(Jim Young/Reuters)

    THE STATE OF A PRESIDENCY, 2008


    Full text of the State of the Union speech..

    A President stands before the nation, a state of a union.. a nation yearning for change. A nation that seems to have had enough with the leadership since Katrina and Iraq went foul..

    When's the check coming?

    Will you end the war?

    Best line: "We have other work to do on taxes. Unless the Congress acts, most of the tax relief we have delivered over the past 7 years will be taken away. Some in Washington argue that letting tax relief expire is not a tax increase. Try explaining that to 116 million American taxpayers who would see their taxes rise by an average of $1,800. Others have said they would personally be happy to pay higher taxes. I welcome their enthusiasm, and I am pleased to report that the IRS accepts both checks and money orders."

    First lady in red..

    Will she be on stage next year? .. Or him?

    * * * *

    HUFFINGTON POST live blog..


    All the news unfit to print for Sunday, January 27, 2008

    The Sunday Morning Sidewalk

    Was that history last night? Bill Clinton, in yet one last racial over toned comment, said Jesse Jackson also won in South Carolina.. I guess he thinks Obama is just another minority that is doomed to lose to the all powerful Clinton machine. Which is exactly why I hope the machine is out of energy, power, oil, or whatever evil soulless power it runs on.

    Pat Buchanan was on MSNBC almost screaming at Joe Scarborough last night proclaiming that he felt everyone last night 'drank the cool aid'.. Is Pat Buchanan right? Watch this speech and dream.

    Is everyone just dreaming and starry eyed?

    Not sure.. But your viewing pleasures, the Sunday morning random rakings submitted for you starry eyed and historic approval:

    John Gibson: The Schmuckraker Schmuck of the week

    Frank Rich talks about the "Billary" road to GOP victory..

    I'm still worried about this disabled spy satellite.. Where will it fall?

    Christian Brando, 49, troubled son or Marlon Brando, died from pneumonia at Los Angeles hospital..

    NEWSWEEK magazine talks about the road to recession.. Luckily, according to my local newspaper this morning, the county I live in may be sheltered from a recession .. that's because the county I live in is in a constant recession..

    Bush's favorite painting turns out to be a criminal fleeing the law..

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    All the news unfit to print for Saturday, January 26, 2008

    "Sunday Morning in America"
    REUTERS PHOTO
    Obama the defiant


    Barack Obama defeated a few things tonight.

    He defeated Hillary Clinton tonight. He defeated John Edwards.

    But he also defeated hopelessness in South Carolina. Broken schools.. people out of work .. people out of hope. He beat the odds.

    A 30 point spread for the man who could be president.. and change history (and the world)..

    As Barack Obama spoke tonight, Democrats, independents, and even some Republicans cheered Obama on.. some in the audience, as they did in Iowa, teared up. Some wept. This man inspires people like no politician has done in decades..

    Barack Obama, at least for one night, defeated the divisive politics of the past 20 years.

    Bill Clinton won in 1992 with a minority of the popular vote but a majority of the electoral votes .. same with Bush in the year 2000. The presidency of Clinton and Bush are being lumped together by Barack Obama.. The genuis is that Obama is doing that without even saying their names.

    The only thing he has to say to make his point is speak about the politics of the past. .of the old. . of yesterday. He speaks about economic crises across the nation .. he talks about a war that only he of the big three on the Democratic side was against from the beginning ..

    But there's something more to the emotion that Obama is bringing to this election. Republicans on some blogs across the web world tonight seemed a bit inspired too. Sites that have been pro-Bush and pro-war for eight years are feeling a little nice tonight. Mark Levin even predicted a McCain loss to Obama..

    Not only did the Clinton machine get swept into a corner for a trash collector to pick up, but also he was able to unite races, genders, religions, and some age groups.

    The miracle race in South Carolina.

    The polls were wrong in New Hampshire. Obama was up by 10 points until the election loss the night of the primary.. And the polls were, yet again, dead wrong in South Carolina. He was up by about 7 points .. he won the real contest by about 30.

    The tough spot that Obama's victory puts Hillary Clinton in is obvious: The only way she can win is to defeat hope. And the man from Hope would have to help. If she wins that way, how possibly can someone of this "Grinch" nature roll into a general election with any wind in her sails...?

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    WIDE POINT SPREAD -- 55-27

    AFP/Emmanuel Dunand
    ...AS OBAMA GIVES HIS VICTORY SPEECH.. I AM AMAZED. THE YOUNG AND OLD BEHIND HIM LOOK LIKE THEY ARE LIVING A DREAM..

    Is South Carolina is a bellwether state, then the nation is ready for an entirely different course in the 21st century..

    And as I watch the audience enthusiastically cheer on their inspiration in chief, news is breaking tonight that Caroline Kennedy is set to rock the campaign: She is going to endorse Obama saying that he is most like her father!

    She writes in the NEW YORK TIMES tomorrow:
    OVER the years, I’ve been deeply moved by the people who’ve told me they wished they could feel inspired and hopeful about America the way people did when my father was president. This sense is even more profound today. That is why I am supporting a presidential candidate in the Democratic primaries, Barack Obama


    Things could really start getting amazing..

    The victory speech is continuing.. Obama said he didn't see a white or black South Carolina, but instead a South Carolina.

    His words are moving .. his voice is strong..

    If a lot of Democrats start to believe in the words Caroline Kennedy writes, we may see history.

    Am I getting ahead of myself? Even Republican seem a little excited (but cautious) ..


    Next: Super Tuesday.. Maybe Hillary will eek them all out. Same ole' same ole. And that's exactly what Obama is running against..

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    A WHOLE NEW WORLD?


    Read this! Washington POST blog tonight..

    "The Clinton campaign is hosting a small post-election event at Element Nightlife, a downtown Columbia bar and club. With one hour until polls close, fewer than 20 Hillary Clinton supporters have arrived for the party. Bartenders here say the campaign has rented the establishment until approximately 9 p.m., guaranteeing an early night for the Clinton supporters who show up.

    Local television stations are set up for evening news live shots, but there's no sign of the national or cable news networks so far.

    On the menu at the Clinton event: Hill Dip, Victory Egg Rolls, Carolina Chicken Fingers, and assorted finger foods."



    Some good Southern food.. and not a hand to eat.

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    Ruffled hair: The third man .. out?
    I cannot imagine another blow to John Edwards not making him reconsider his race for the White House..

    John Edwards projected to come in third place in South Carolina..

    Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards (D-NC) gets his hair messed up by talk show host David Letterman in this publicity photo taken during a taping of 'Late Night with David Letterman in New York January 22, 2008. Photo taken January 22, 2008. REUTERS/John Paul Filo/CBS/Handout

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    The fine points of tonight's Obama major victory..

    Bill Clinton did not help the Hillary Clinton effort.. the finger waving too reminiscent of the 1990s..

    Church goers went for Obama..

    Exit polls: Results not just black or white..

    AP headline tonight: "OBAMA RUNS AWAY WITH SOUTH CAROLINA PRIMARY"..

    Battle lines drawn for Super Tuesday..

    And in Republican news tonight, John McCain gets major boost two days before Tuesday Florida primary: Florida Governor Charlie Crist endorses Senator McCain for president.. And so goes the state?

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    MAJOR VICTORY FOR BARACK OBAMA ..
    DEVELOPING


  • BLACKS OF ALL AGES AND DEMOGRAPHICS WENT FOR BARACK OBAMA..
  • HILLARY CLINTON DID NOT WIN BLACK WOMEN..
  • WHITE VOTE IS SPLIT: GOING FOR EDWARDS AND CLINTON..
  • WHITE MALE VOTERS: PRACTICALLY TIED BETWEEN OBAMA AND CLINTON
  • EXIT POLLS: BILL CLINTON HURT

    And here is the most important demographic, IF they vote: YOUNG VS OLD. This race may not be a race of women vs men, or black vs white. Instead it may be young vs old. New vs past. Younger voters overwhelmingly going for Barack Obama.. Voters 60 years old and up did not.


  • TONIGHT MAY BE OBAMA'S BIG NIGHT..


    AFP PHOTOAFP PHOTO
    REUTERS
    THE FINAL HOURS: SOUTH CAROLINA

    * * *
    HUGE TURNOUT
    * * *
    FEW POLLING PROBLEMS REPORTED

    Early signs pointing to a huge turnout--statewide--in South Carolina..

    Experts will be watching how the vote alters due to race, religion, and gender.. Some late polls suggest that Edwards may be giving Hillary Clinton a run for money, possibly her second place status is in jeopardy..

    IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THIS.. RACE.. GENDER.. ALL THE ARGUMENTS OF THE PAST WEEK ABOUT HILLARY'S HUSBAND AND OBAMA'S SLUM LORDS. IT ALL COMES TO AN END TONIGHT. AN END AT LEAST IN ONE STATE. AN IMPORTANT STATE..

    Who will swing.. or will not. Or will we see a surprise.

    Polls close soon. Answers coming tonight..

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    Buldges and voices: Who's that whisper?


    The story that won't die.

    Remember back in the year 2004, rumors abounded online that George W. Bush was wearing a listening device.

    Now in 2008, that is one of the accusations being thrown at Mitt Romney.

    After Tim Russert asked Romney a question about Reagan, a voice whispered "he raised taxes." And what's more, if you listen closely, the voice seems to go on to say "you're not going to raise taxes."

    Mitt Romney, after the whisper, said "I'm not gonna raise taxes."

    Who is the whisper?

    The political intrigue--and not too many stories within the main stream media over where the whisper came from.

    NBC offered a explanation to the haunting 'raised taxes' whisper on their website:
    *** UPDATE *** After reviewing the tapes, NBC determined that an open mic picked up a whisper from the audience. It is unclear who it is that says it, but it was not said by any of the candidates, was not heard in the hall and, more importantly, not heard by the candidates

    Their reasoning isn't making sense to bloggers and You Tubers across the land. The storyline coming out of the debate from Florida in the MSM: Mitt Romney's best night yet. The story coming from the internet: A mystery voice giving Mitt the answers.

    Truth or dare on live TV.


    God Bless America.

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    Nausea over crazy people

    .. A continuation of our Schmuck of the Week story.. More clips and video about Heath Ledger's death -- at rabid crazy people afterwards mocking his death body..


    VIDEO FROM YOU TUBE USER ThePatriotsMaxim


    SICK: JOHN GIBSON MOCKS HEATH LEDGER'S DEATH

    I missed this during the week.. I am glad I did. Thanks for the email alerting me to these words and this story. John Gibson mocks Heath Ledger's death on his radio show..

    He opened his show with funeral music .. he played clips of Ledger saying "We're dead"..

    Gibson said, "He was depressed about yesterday’s downturn in the world stock markets."

    He played clips during funeral music from BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN. He opened the show saying Ledger "found out how to quit you."

    Most recently, Mr. Gibson wrote a book about how Christmas is becoming Godless..

    And even more recently, Mr. Gibson became Godless. Along with his hair.. his weighty hair-sprayed hair.

    John Gibson isn't worth much respect. He came to us during the OJ Simpson trial back in the 1990s. He made a name for himself by reporting the scoopings and drippings of trial gossip nightly. He moved up the ranks on FOX NEWS. He writes books.. he proclaims himself as a fine Christian concerned about America.

    He should thank his lucky stars with Geraldo Rivera gave him to the nation.

    His words this week weren't funny. There's an audience for sick humor -- but someone like John Gibson is not the character it should come from. And besides, it was beyond tasteless, the timing was horrible, and it wasn't really even funny.

    Aqua Net Gibson: The most heinous person of the week. I don't do it anymore with regularity, but I nominate and proclaim John Gibson: The Schmuck of the Week. One sick schmuck.

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    MUST WATCH VIDEO



    BlackBoxVoting with You Tube video titled: New Hampshire Primary - Sham Chain of Custody ..

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    SUPER SATURDAY MORNING RANDOM RAKINGS

    Singer Amy Winehouse leaves Snaresbrook Crown Court in London, after attending a court hearing for her husband Blake Fielder-Civil January 18, 2008. Winehouse, who this week appeared in video footage apparently showing her smoking crack cocaine, has entered a rehab clinic, her record company said on Thursday.<br />(Luke MacGregor/Reuters)A primary ongoing in South Carolina. It may make history; maybe record turnout. And finally, hopefully, a big blow to divisive language that has made this country red and blue instead of what it really is: A mix of everything in between, as PurpleMinded.com likes to say.

    There's other news today, though, too, presented in a bundle of random rakings.. for your enjoyment. And Amy Winehouse's, too:

    Stormy weather pattern coming..

    Study finds that couples that fight live longer (only to fight longer while they live? The paradox)..

    Great read: Lost and found in the digital world..

    Simple thoughts with Al Franken..

    Political mystery: Who whispered at Republican Boca Raton debate?

    Heath Ledger's body being returned to Australia..

    Stallone says he used growth hormone for latest RAMBO film..

    ABC faces fine for 2003 NYPD blue show featuring half a breast..

    Study: All the President's falsehoods..

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    Could be a record turnout day for Democrats in South Carolina..

    Latest polls show thats Edwards is big threat to Clinton..


    The South Carolina Democratic primary is on..

    Obama has been double teamed through the process...

    While Obama inspired, Bill Clinton spoke about "fairy tales"..

    While Obama's message tried to take America into the 21st century, Bill Clinton spoke about the battles of the 90s..

    While Obama inspired new voters, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton began a whisper campaign with racial overtones in order to surpress Obama's vote.

    I am sick of the Clintons. I hope South Carolina is, too.

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    All the news unfit to print for Thursday, January 24, 2008

    RAMBO READY!

    2,751 theaters strong for weekend release of RAMBO film..

    REUTERS/Toshiyuki Aizawa (JAPAN)


    Rebate deal! Bring it on....


    All the news unfit to print for Wednesday, January 23, 2008



    Putin the great .. president of Germany!?

    AFP PHOTO
    It's these types of moments that don't help a candidate--especially when that candidate is a leading GOP contender for president and someone being asked outright whether he is too old for the job..

    McCain speech includes line, "I was in a conference in Germany over the weekend and President Putin of Germany gave one of the old Cold War style speeches"



    AUTOPSY INCONCLUSIVE

    No official word yet on what caused Heath Ledger's death..

    But it's not stopping media outlets from finding 'disturbing' interviews..

    And Jack Nicholson adds his knowledge.





    All the news unfit to print for Tuesday, January 22, 2008

    AP Photo/Michael Caulfield
    HEATH LEDGER, 1979-2008


    Reactions

    The news rounding the world ..

    BATMAN-ON-FILM: I didn’t know Heath Ledger, but I know the character he plays in THE DARK KNIGHT very well

    Harry Knowles: "I'm so pissed about this. Not at Heath - but at the cruel fucking fate of the world that would take an actor at his absolute prime - right when he was about to explode with what seems like an astonishing performance as the Joker. This is just cruel. Cruel to his family, friends and absolutely brutal to all of us that were so looking forward to spending years and years watching him entertain, touch and thrill us in theaters."

    Editor of IN TOUCH weekly: "It's just horribly tragic. He was just a fine actor and a good person, so this is horribly sad and very unexpected"

    Ledger's publicist: "We are all deeply saddened and shocked by this accident. This is an extremely difficult time for his loved ones and we are asking the media to please respect the family's privacy and avoid speculation until the facts are known."

    Mary Kate Olsen's publicist: He did not die in Mary Kate's apartment

    * * *

    The paparazzi cram for a shot..

    * * *

    Latest reports: Police are telling many sources that they do not believe Ledger's death was a suicide..




    CONFLICTING REPORTS: TMZ REPORTS 'ACCIDENTAL' ...TMZ SAYS THEY HAVE BEEN CONTACTED BY LEDGER'S FAMILY AND THAT HE DID NOT KILL HIMSELF... THIS WHILE OTHER SOURCES CONTINUE TO REPORT ABOUT PILLS BEING FOUND NEAR LEDGER'S BODY WHEN HE WAS FOUND..

    MORE

    SOURCES REPORTING TO VARIOUS NEWS AGENCIES TONIGHT THAT LEDGER WAS FOUND NAKED WITH SLEEPING PILLS NEAR HIM..

    SOURCES SAYING HE HAD 'TERRIBLE MOOD SWINGS'

    PAPARAZZI AND ONLOOKERS GATHERING OUTSIDE OF HIS APARTMENT OF UPSCALE SHOHO BLOCK

    X X X

    CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED ACTOR; STAR OF 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN' .. HIS NEXT STARRING ROLE WAS THE JOKER IN NEXT BATMAN FILM..

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    Alan Horn, President and COO of Warner Bros. and Jeff Robinov, President, Warner Bros. Pictures Group have issued the following statement:
    "The studio is stunned and devastated by this tragic news. The entertainment community has lost an enormous talent. Heath was a brilliant actor and an exceptional person. Our hearts go out to his family and friends."

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    HEATH LEDGER DEAD AT 28 YEARS OLD

    * * *

    FOUND DEAD IN NEW YORK CITY; PILLS FOUND NEAR BODY

    * * *



    DEVELOPING..

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    Breaking.. heath ledger dead! More to come...

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    All the news unfit to print for Monday, January 21, 2008



    A woman shelters from the rain as she passes a screen showing trading market graphs in west London January 21, 2008. Britain's top share index dived more than 5 percent on Monday, on track for its biggest daily drop since the September 11 2001 attacks in the United States, as stocks around the globe tumbled on fears a U.S. recession is looming.<br />REUTERS/Toby Melville (BRITAIN)
    Holiday meltdown: Market chaos across the globe


    How will Wall Street respond tomorrow?

    A panic?

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    PHOTO: REUTERS/Jessica Rinaldi (UNITED STATES) OF WHITE SEPERATISTS IN JENA, LA
    A DISGUSTING PROTEST IN JENA, MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY 2008


    While defending freedom of speech itself is America's mission, defending those who speak freely is not mandated.

    Today, Martin Luther King Day, Jena, Louisiana saw another protest. . another protest about black children and white children. .another protest featuring nooses .. another protest in which we saw the Confederate flag flying freely like it was 1861 all over again.

    Today's protest: 50 white separatists protested the Martin Luther King Jr holiday and they chose Jena to do it.

    A town of great division.. the focal point of race relations and tension ever since black teens were arrested for beating white teens in December 2006.

    The original charges against some of those black children: Attempted murder. The charges have since been reduced since voices spoke out in protest that there was immorally harsh prosecution based on race taking place.

    But today, other voices were heard.. The protest was faced with a counter protest .. Reports say that at least two of the Confederate flag waving white supremacists were armed..

    Martin Luther King Jr. spoke out about racism so many years ago .. Doctor King's vision led to a civil rights movement.. one based on all people being created equal .. The dream he had still is playing out.

    Too often the 'dream' has been a nightmare..


    The nightmare of race relations in this country has been that since the Civil War. Entire states.. areas .. Race relations in America have come a long way. But protests like we saw today show that there is a long way to travel down the road still.

    The very notion that a Confederate flag still flies is a slap in the face to all people of moral aptitude. There are a few out there that want an all-white nation. They wish the South won the Civil War..

    Then people of pure intentions slap a Confederate flag sticker on their bumper.. Do they know what it means? States' rights. Ok. Tradition.. that's stretching it. Racism. Essentially, yes. It was the flag of a nation that fought, among other issues, to extend and continue slavery in America.

    Abraham Lincoln didn't intially yearn to abolish slavery.. but history's road took him to that decision.

    We can only hope that Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr. are watching us from a better place and making sure this country continues to take the right road toward greater respect for all people.

    The virtue of today's holiday is that people remember what Doctor King died for..

    And now, in 2008, there is a woman running for President ..That most certainly bothers a lot of people .. And